Legislature(1999 - 2000)

03/23/2000 01:39 PM Senate TRA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
           SENATE TRANSPORTATION COMMITTEE                                                                                      
                    March 23, 2000                                                                                              
                      1:39 p.m.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Senator Jerry Ward, Chairman                                                                                                    
Senator Drue Pearce, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Mike Miller                                                                                                             
Senator Georgianna Lincoln                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Rick Halford                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Presentation by DOTPF Staff on Juneau Access                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATE BILL NO. 288                                                                                                             
"An Act authorizing the Department of Transportation and Public                                                                 
Facilities to enter into an agreement with the Inter-Island Ferry                                                               
Authority regarding the operation of the Clarke Bay Terminal,                                                                   
Prince of Wales Island."                                                                                                        
     MOVED SB 288 OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE ACTION                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SB 288 - No previous Senate action.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Pat Kemp                                                                                                                    
Preconstruction Engineer                                                                                                        
Southeast Region                                                                                                                
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities                                                                              
6860 Glacier Highway                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-7999                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave Presentation on Juneau Access                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Jack Beedle                                                                                                                     
Design Group Chief                                                                                                              
Southeast Region                                                                                                                
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities                                                                              
6860 Glacier Highway                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-7999                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Gave Presentation on Juneau Access                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Captain Robert J. Doll                                                                                                          
General Manager of Ferry Operations                                                                                             
Southeast Region                                                                                                                
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities                                                                              
3132 Channel Drive                                                                                                              
Juneau, AK  99801-7898                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Answered Questions about Fast Ferries                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Murray Walsh                                                                                                                    
Transportation Committee                                                                                                        
Juneau Chamber of Commerce                                                                                                      
8800 Glacier Hwy, Suite 112                                                                                                     
Juneau, Alaska  99801                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports Fast Ferry Service if Plans to Build                                                              
the East Lynn Canal Highway are Pursued                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Andy Williams                                                                                                                   
No address provided                                                                                                             
Juneau, Alaska                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports Fast Ferries if Highway Plans Continue                                                             
                                                                                                                                
David Gray                                                                                                                      
Legislative Aide to Senator Mackie                                                                                              
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, Alaska  99801-1182                                                                                                      
POSITION STATEMENT:  Testified for sponsor of SB 288                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-03, SIDE A                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD called the Senate Transportation Committee meeting to                                                             
order at 1:39 p.m.  Present were Senators Lincoln, Miller, and                                                                  
Chairman Ward.  The committee first heard a presentation by                                                                     
Department of Transportation and Public Facilities' (DOTPF) staff                                                               
on Juneau Access.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAT KEMP, Preconstruction Engineer for DOTPF, accompanied by                                                                
Mr. Jack Beedle, Design Group Chief, gave the following                                                                         
presentation.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The Juneau Access project began in 1993.  In 1994 an                                                                       
     engineering reconnaissance report was published and work began                                                             
     on a draft environmental impact statement.  In 1997, the EIS                                                               
     was released to the public and a series of hearings were held                                                              
     throughout the state.  After gathering public comments, in                                                                 
     order to move forward and complete the EIS work, it was                                                                    
     necessary to declare one of the alternatives presented in the                                                              
     draft document as a preferred alternative.  To do so,                                                                      
     Commissioner Perkins asked that we take the pertinent                                                                      
     information contained within this, the draft EIS, and put                                                                  
     together a presentation for Governor Knowles.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     After viewing the presentation, Governor Knowles accepted the                                                              
     Department's recommendation that a highway along the East side                                                             
     of Lynn Canal is the state's preferred alternative for                                                                     
     improving access to Juneau.  What I'm going to present to you                                                              
     today is the Power Point presentation prepared for Governor                                                                
     Knowles.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
[Mr. Kemp's power point presentation was modeled on a document                                                                  
entitled, "Juneau Access - DOT&PF Preferred Alternative Report.]                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP discussed the history of surface transportation to Juneau,                                                             
beginning with the Alaska Steamship Company in 1890.  The Southeast                                                             
transportation plan published by DOTPF in 1986 established the East                                                             
Lynn Canal Highway as the long term solution for improving access                                                               
to Juneau.  In 1992, the Legislature authorized funding and                                                                     
reconnaissance work began in 1994.  In 1997, the draft EIS was                                                                  
released for public review.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
The purpose and need of the Juneau Access project and the draft                                                                 
document consist of five issues: the capacity to meet                                                                           
transportation demand in the corridor; flexibility and improved                                                                 
opportunity for travel; reduced travel time; reduced state cost;                                                                
and reduced user costs for transportation.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
To examine the problem in Lynn Canal, DOTPF looked at the                                                                       
comparison of existing service growth, community growth, and                                                                    
adjacent corridor growth and the differences between the three.  It                                                             
compared that to the Lynn Canal traffic forecast peak travel demand                                                             
in 2025.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
In summary, ferry service in Lynn Canal did not grow, community                                                                 
populations grew at about 23 percent and the traffic volumes on                                                                 
adjacent corridors grew at about 27 percent.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Within the draft EIS, DOTPF performed a detailed traffic study                                                                  
which included all types of travel.  Peak travel occurs during July                                                             
and is low during the winter months.  In 2025, the projected demand                                                             
is expected to be 2,123 vehicles.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
DOTPF studied several alternatives.  DOTPF added a ten percent                                                                  
contingency to the cost of each alternative and $5 million for the                                                              
preliminary engineering cost.  The first alternative was a "no                                                                  
build" alternative which consists of existing service.  The capital                                                             
cost to keep the existing ferries fit is about $96 million.  The                                                                
annual operating cost of the existing service is $8.4 million and                                                               
revenues generated from fares equal $6.5 million for a net                                                                      
operating cost of about $1.9 million.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The second alternative is the East Lynn Canal Highway which would                                                               
extend Juneau's Glacier Highway to Skagway.  Daily shuttle ferry                                                                
service would be available from the Katzehin River flats.  The July                                                             
capacity of this facility is greater than the projected traffic of                                                              
2100 vehicles.  The travel time between Auke Bay and Skagway would                                                              
be two hours.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked the number of road miles between Juneau and                                                              
Skagway.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP replied from the Auke Bay ferry terminal Skagway is 92                                                                 
miles.  He said the capital cost of the roadway would be $232                                                                   
million, and annual maintenance and operations would cost about                                                                 
$4.3 million.  This alternative contains an average toll of $25 per                                                             
vehicle - the shuttle ferry would charge nothing.  The second road                                                              
alternative includes the same capital cost.  No toll would be                                                                   
charged but the ferry shuttle would charge.  The annual net                                                                     
operating cost would be $2.1 million.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
The marine alternatives consist of four options.  Three of those                                                                
options would use existing service and add fast ferry service                                                                   
between different points.  The fourth would use only fast ferry                                                                 
service.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Commissioner Perkins asked DOTPF staff to look at several other                                                                 
proposals.  The first proposal bypasses Berners Bay with a shuttle                                                              
ferry system.  A road would be constructed from Berners Bay to                                                                  
Skagway with shuttle service at Katzehin.  The second proposal is                                                               
to terminate the roadway at Katzehin Flats and institute shuttle                                                                
service between Katzehin, Haines, and Skagway.   A third proposal                                                               
would extend the highway to Berners Bay, utilize the Malaspina to                                                               
the Katzehin Flats, construct a highway to Skagway and use ferry                                                                
shuttle service from Katzehin Flats to Haines.   The last proposal                                                              
would extend the highway to Katzehin Flats and institute a                                                                      
triangular shuttle ferry service.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Finally, DOTPF did an update to the marine alternatives studied in                                                              
the draft document to determine whether there are more alternatives                                                             
than those considered in the draft.  The Juneau Access document                                                                 
contains a user benefit analysis.  For this particular study, DOTPF                                                             
used life cycle costing.  The Glosten report corroborated the                                                                   
information DOTPF found for option 4D which extends the highway to                                                              
Berners Bay and uses two high speed ferries.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
An independent rating team reviewed the alternatives.  The                                                                      
individuals were not familiar with the project.  The team was made                                                              
up of two federal highway professionals and three Alaska DOTPF                                                                  
professionals from the central region and the DOTPF Statewide Chief                                                             
of Planning.   They reviewed the hard data and made an analysis.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The team rated each project on several criteria.  The East Lynn                                                                 
Canal highway rated highest in providing the capacity to meeting                                                                
transportation demand in July of 2025.  Again, the team assigned                                                                
the East Lynn Canal Highway the highest value of 10 when it                                                                     
compared the alternatives for flexibility and ability to improve                                                                
opportunities for travel.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if Proposals 5A and 5D scored 9 because of                                                                
the large increase in the number of round trips.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said the scoring team assigned a value of four to                                                                      
Alternatives 4A through 4D because those alternatives required four                                                             
round trips each day.  Proposals 5B and 5C received scores of 8 and                                                             
2 respectively because of the number of round trips of each.                                                                    
Proposals 5A and 5D received scores of 9 because the team knew                                                                  
those proposals were not as good as a ten but they were better than                                                             
the other alternatives.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
The third purpose and need is to reduce travel times between the                                                                
communities.  The team then evaluated the greatest savings in time                                                              
for each alternative.  The East Lynn Canal highway offered the                                                                  
greatest savings of 7.1 hours off of the existing time and it                                                                   
received a high score of 10.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The team rated each project based on the state's cost to provide                                                                
transportation in the corridor.  The annual operating costs and the                                                             
annual refurbishing cost, which equals the capital cost put into                                                                
vessels on an annual basis, were calculated.  They added the                                                                    
operating and refurbishing costs together to calculate the net cost                                                             
each year of each alternative.  Again, the East Lynn Canal highway                                                              
had the lowest annual cost and received the highest score of 10.                                                                
The second part of the fourth purpose and need was to look at the                                                               
capital costs.  The "no build" alternative costs the least so it                                                                
received a score of 10.  The other alternatives were scored on a                                                                
linear basis.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The team last looked at reduced user costs for transportation in                                                                
the corridor.  The cost was determined for one-way travel for a                                                                 
family of four with a vehicle under 19 feet from Auke Bay to                                                                    
Skagway.  The user cost for the existing service equals $191.  The                                                              
East Lynn Canal highway alternative was the least expensive with a                                                              
cost of $20.  The proposed toll was not included in that rating.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The five criteria were scored for each alternative to come up with                                                              
an overall rating.  The criteria was not weighted.  Alternative 2,                                                              
the East Lynn Canal highway, received the highest score.                                                                        
Alternative 4D received the second highest score.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
In summary, the East Lynn Canal highway was the only alternative                                                                
that meets the traffic demand, offers the greatest flexibility and                                                              
opportunity for travel, gives the greatest reduction in travel                                                                  
time, has the lowest operating cost and has the lowest user cost                                                                
for the traveler therefore it was recommended as the preferred                                                                  
alternative.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The second part of DOTPF's study included a review of the                                                                       
following:  the Berners Bay Crossing; the sea lion haulout South of                                                             
Haines; avalanche hazards; recreational opportunities; economic                                                                 
impacts; and public comments.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
DOTPF worked with the resource agencies to study three separate                                                                 
alignments through Berners Bay.  The roadway embankment has been                                                                
minimized as much as possible.  Bridges would be built over the                                                                 
rivers.  An estimated 57 acres of wetlands would be filled.                                                                     
Significant opposition from environmental groups has been voiced a                                                              
about this crossing.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
DOTPF worked with the National Marine Fisheries Service (NMFS) and                                                              
agreed to restrict the view from and to the sea lion haulout.                                                                   
Human access would be restricted as well, and the construction in                                                               
that area would occur while sea lions are not there.  DOTPF went                                                                
through a Section 7 analysis of the Endangered Species Act with                                                                 
NMFS and concluded that the highway would be unlikely to adversely                                                              
impact the sea lion haulout.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
The second substantive issue is the avalanche hazard.  58 paths                                                                 
have been identified along the highway alignment; 54 of the paths                                                               
are less severe than Snowslide Gulch on Thane Road.  A mitigation                                                               
plan for each site was not developed for the draft document.  The                                                               
annual maintenance estimate includes about $350,000 for a detailed                                                              
avalanche program.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
An avalanche hazard index (AHI) is an empirical formula that is                                                                 
used to rate the severity of avalanches.  Of the 58 avalanches, 32                                                              
are rated very low, 20 are rated low, three are rated moderate, and                                                             
three are rated high.  In comparison, there are 150 avalanche paths                                                             
on the Seward Highway: about 2 paths every mile.  The AHI for the                                                               
Lynn Canal highway is 369, for the Seward Highway it is 1,215.                                                                  
That is an unmitigated value where nothing is done to mitigate the                                                              
impacts.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
The recreational opportunities along the East Lynn Canal highway                                                                
include bicycling, hiking, climbing, kayaking, sport fishing,                                                                   
hunting, camping, picnicking, and wildlife viewing.  The roadway is                                                             
30 feet wide.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Number 2046                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked how far the scenic overlook is from the sea                                                               
lion haulout.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP was unsure but pointed out the only comment that DOTPF                                                                 
received from NMFS about recreational opportunities being close to                                                              
the sea lion haulout was that motorized boats could not be within                                                               
10 miles of that site.  The recreational sites will be developed                                                                
jointly with the U.S. Forest Service and the Alaska Department of                                                               
Natural Resources.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
The highway construction will provide 200 jobs each year.  Labor                                                                
expenditures are estimated to be $100 million.  Regarding local                                                                 
economy leakage, DOTPF found that Haines' residents would spend an                                                              
additional $0.5 million in Juneau, Skagway residents would spend an                                                             
additional $0.8 million in Juneau, but Juneau residents would spend                                                             
$0.8 million in Haines and $1.0 million in Skagway.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP discussed the five major concerns expressed by community                                                               
participants in a telephone survey:  cost to build; environmental                                                               
impacts; increased traffic; social impacts; and maintenance.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said they received a lot of comments saying don't build                                                                
the highway but those respondents did not say what to do.  DOTPF                                                                
supposed those people did want improvements and were for the marine                                                             
alternative.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said the breakdown by community statistics shows that the                                                              
marine alternatives were favored by Haines and Skagway respondents                                                              
while the highway was favored in Juneau.  Respondents from "other                                                               
Alaska" favored the marine highway.  DOTPF received quite a few                                                                 
postcards and mailings from large environmental groups outside of                                                               
Alaska in favor of the marine highway alternatives.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if the 1700 comments opposed to the highway                                                               
or for the marine highway were broken down into more detail.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said that is work that will be performed for the final                                                                 
EIS.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if he has any idea what that breakdown will                                                               
be.                                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said he does not.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if DOTPF received only 219 comments from "other                                                             
Alaska."                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS noted the total for "other Alaska" is about 770.                                                               
He asked if DOTPF sent out postcards for comments.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said DOTPF has had quite an extensive public involvement                                                               
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if DOTPF sent out postcards requesting                                                                      
comments.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JACK BEEDLE, Design Group Chief for the Southeast Region of                                                                 
DOTPF, clarified that postcards were sent by another group that                                                                 
copied a letter from DOTPF.  It appeared to be from DOTPF but was                                                               
not.  He noted DOTPF took oral testimony at public hearings and                                                                 
accepted written testimony that was mailed to DOTPF.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked who sent the postcards.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MR. BEEDLE replied it was sent by a group that supported the                                                                    
highway.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP noted DOTPF proposed a work schedule for this project in                                                               
1998 as it expected to have a record of decision for the draft                                                                  
document in 2000.  Work would begin in 2002 with a segment of                                                                   
highway from the end of Glacier Highway to Independence Lake                                                                    
completed and a temporary ferry facility would be built in the                                                                  
Berners Bay area for the Malaspina.  During the second year of                                                                  
construction, the Malaspina could begin day boat operations from                                                                
Berners Bay and another increment of highway could be constructed.                                                              
During the third construction year, the Katzehin ferry terminal                                                                 
would begin as well as construction of the highway into Skagway.                                                                
Malaspina service would begin during the fourth year while the                                                                  
remainder of the highway is constructed.  During the fifth year,                                                                
shuttle ferry service could begin between the three points.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PHILLIPS asked if construction would occur year round.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP replied construction would occur year round.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MILLER noted that the presentation seemed to favor the                                                                  
road.  He asked why the fast ferry has become the choice                                                                        
alternative.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 00-03, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MURRAY WALSH, a member of a group formerly known as Alaskans                                                                
for Better Access and presently a  member of the transportation                                                                 
committee of the Juneau Chamber of Commerce, informed committee                                                                 
members that the draft environmental impact statement, upon which                                                               
DOTPF's presentation was based, was issued in mid-1997. An                                                                      
elaborate public comment period ensued afterwards.  After that,                                                                 
DOTPF worked on the subject but did not publish any more documents.                                                             
This presentation was prepared about one year ago to present to                                                                 
state officials so that a preferred alternative could be chosen.                                                                
To his understanding, that presentation was made about 11 months                                                                
ago.  Then nothing happened until January of 2000 when the Governor                                                             
announced the transportation initiative which included the fast                                                                 
ferry.  Many people were nonplussed by that.  The fast ferry idea                                                               
did not emerge from the environmental process - that process is                                                                 
stalled at this point.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DOTPF's presentation was given at a Juneau Chamber of Commerce                                                                  
(JCC) special meeting arranged by the transportation committee.  At                                                             
that meeting, a document version of the slide show and a letter to                                                              
the Federal Highway Administration (FHA) from DOTPF was passed out.                                                             
That letter specifies that the Juneau Access preferred alternative                                                              
is the East Lynn Canal Highway but then says, "... however, we've                                                               
determined that there are other critical funding needs in the state                                                             
and we can't afford the preferred alternative at this time,                                                                     
therefore we are suspending further work on the EIS."  The JCC                                                                  
transportation committee members were told to expect a letter from                                                              
FHA in response.  Mr. Walsh received a copy of that letter today.                                                               
The FHA says the state has two choices:  to complete the EIS which                                                              
will probably cost in the neighborhood of $2 million; or to                                                                     
withdraw from the project altogether.  The letter does not say what                                                             
the consequences of withdrawal might be.  He called the local FHA                                                               
and asked whether the state will have to pay back the $5.3 million                                                              
spent so far.  The FHA official would not say, but said the                                                                     
withdrawal decision should be based on other reasons.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Number 2238                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked the name of the FHA official.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH said Steve Marino (ph).                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH said he asked Mr. Marino if it is possible the $5.3                                                                   
million will have to be repaid and Mr. Marino said it is, but it is                                                             
more likely that it won't be.  Mr. Walsh said what has frustrated                                                               
many people is that the fast ferry idea came as a "bolt from the                                                                
blue."  A number of the alternatives examined in the slide show                                                                 
were also never before available to the public.  The group of                                                                   
alternatives examined in the draft EIS were in the slide show but                                                               
another bunch were examined that were not - they emerged after the                                                              
public comment period.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH noted the FHA also said that DOTPF declared a preferred                                                               
alternative but it has no legal status for action.  The process                                                                 
must be finished for the preferred alternative, or any other                                                                    
alternative, to have any significance.  He does not know what the                                                               
State will do, but the State has indicated that it does not want to                                                             
work on the EIS anymore.  He pleaded with committee members to do                                                               
something to encourage the State to finish the EIS process.  If it                                                              
is not, the fast ferry is all we will ever get.  It has been                                                                    
described as an interim solution but there is no other process                                                                  
underway to come to a more permanent and more successful solution.                                                              
The fast ferry provides the least improvement of service of any of                                                              
the alternatives.  People are being urged to support the fast ferry                                                             
and many people would like to if they thought something else will                                                               
happen.  He firmly believes that if the State just "chops off the                                                               
process" that is all we will ever have.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN stated she has not read the entire letter from the                                                              
FHA, but she noted on page 2 it reads, "... the analysis could                                                                  
define the ferry portion as a temporary measure intended to satisfy                                                             
a limited portion of the need until funding for the entire                                                                      
alternative becomes available."  She thought it sounds like the                                                                 
federal government is acknowledging that there is still a                                                                       
considerable amount of money yet to be expended and that they are                                                               
willing to set that aside to go with a fast ferry or the other                                                                  
alternative until resources come available.  In other words, the                                                                
FHA would simply suspend it.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH said he interprets the FHA as saying if the State decides                                                             
it wants to have a fast ferry on an interim basis, the State can                                                                
spend federal money to do that.  He thought the FHA is trying to be                                                             
accommodating.  He noted, with regard to money, the State will                                                                  
receive federal highway receipts of $400 million per year, double                                                               
what has been the case earlier in the decade.  He feels that                                                                    
arguing that there is not enough money for an expensive solution                                                                
ignores the huge amount of federal funds that are flowing Alaska's                                                              
way.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN remarked, "It seems, now, in looking at option 2,                                                               
it says, this option prevents you from preserving an East Lynn                                                                  
Canal alignment as the preferred alternative so that if you go with                                                             
that, you're simply saying that it would be a fast ferry and that's                                                             
the end of it."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH said that is what it amounts to.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Mr. Walsh to describe his affiliation.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH stated he is a member of the Juneau Chamber of Commerce's                                                             
recently formed transportation committee.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked Mr. Murray, given the information he has                                                                  
before him today, what direction the JCC intends to take.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. WALSH replied the JCC has not picked a direction yet, but his                                                               
inclination is to recommend that the JCC transportation committee                                                               
support the fast ferry if the State continues with the                                                                          
environmental impact process.   To support the fast ferry                                                                       
alternative with no hope of anything better would be tough to                                                                   
swallow.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELTON asked how much it will cost to complete the EIS and                                                               
for Mr. Murray to explain the process of how federal highway funds                                                              
will be allocated for projects around the State.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said that to turn the draft EIS into a final document and                                                              
get the permits will cost about $2 million and take about 25                                                                    
months.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if the $2 million is in addition to the $5                                                                  
million that has already been spent and whether the $5 million may                                                              
have to be paid back if the State stops the process now.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. KEMP said he is not sure whether the $5 million will have to be                                                             
repaid.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN BOB DOLL, General Manager of Ferry Operations, DOTPF, said                                                              
that a great deal more money will be flowing from the federal                                                                   
government than has in the past but, at the same time, the demands                                                              
for that money has increased.  The process for submitting projects                                                              
and getting communities to pass resolutions in support is far more                                                              
refined that it has been in the past.  One thing that has happened                                                              
in the past year is that this project has been competing with every                                                             
other project in the State in the STIP development process.  The                                                                
Southeast transportation plan will demand about $430 million and if                                                             
$230 million is spent to complete the EIS, that will be a                                                                       
significant portion of the money that will flow to the State over                                                               
the next 10 years.  Therefore, the project has been competing.  The                                                             
Governor and Commissioner Perkins said, when they announced their                                                               
decision, that in their estimation, this project does not compete                                                               
well enough with all of the other demands in the State so they                                                                  
decided not to proceed with it.  The fast ferry is an effort to                                                                 
provide an interim improvement in access to and from Juneau.  That                                                              
is not an alternative that the EIS discussed, it merely takes                                                                   
advantage of a design that DOTPF is developing for other purposes.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MILLER thought the U.S. Department of Transportation was                                                                
clear in its letter that Alaska must complete it or totally                                                                     
withdraw from the project.  It appears that the Administration has                                                              
decided to withdraw from the project.  He asked whether the State                                                               
will have to start from scratch again once it withdraws.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said he cannot answer that question authoritatively                                                                
but he was sure that everyone in favor of the road project hopes                                                                
that the investment and effort that has gone into that project                                                                  
might find more fertile ground some time in the future.  He noted                                                               
the Commissioner will have to consider whether the State must repay                                                             
the federal government when he responds to the FHA.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MILLER thought it would be much cheaper to spend the $2                                                                 
million and finish the EIS and, if another Administration comes                                                                 
along and likes the idea, the wheel will not have to be reinvented.                                                             
He thought spending another $2 million to have the project ready to                                                             
go, should it become an option in the future, makes sense.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL noted that consideration has been presented to DOTPF.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked whether DOTPF made any conclusion as to whether                                                             
to continue and complete the study.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL recalled from that conversation that that issue would                                                              
have to be addressed when responding to the FHA.  Including having                                                              
to repay, and having to find the $2 million, the question of the                                                                
life of the EIS is a fairly technical topic.  The issue is how far                                                              
the EIS must be developed before it becomes self-sustaining.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if the response to the Juneau Access question                                                               
was three fast ferries.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL stated the first fast ferry was the Shakwak (ph) ferry                                                             
which was designed to serve Sitka.  The estimate for that ferry is                                                              
$38.5 million.  By service production, the total cost of all of the                                                             
ferries should be reduced.  The bond proposal contains two                                                                      
additional ferries, one of which is intended to operate North from                                                              
Ketchikan to Wrangell.  The third would operate in Lynn Canal from                                                              
Juneau north.  The total cost is about $100 million.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if the $100 million would come out of the cost                                                              
of the road project.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL replied "we have some apples and oranges here."  The                                                               
fast ferry projects, and two of those three, are intended to serve                                                              
the requirements of the Southeast transportation plan which extends                                                             
throughout the whole of Southeast Alaska.  The whole fast ferry                                                                 
project is intended to fulfill the essential parts of the Southeast                                                             
transportation plan.  Lynn Canal is only one part.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked whether the fast ferry service will keep the                                                                
cost at zero.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said they would represent additional capacity.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if any of the ferries will be retired.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said that is a central issue that DOTPF has to keep in                                                             
mind.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if that question was addressed in the $5.5                                                                  
million study and whether the fast ferry system is new and                                                                      
different.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said "that is correct."                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked when the Commissioner and the Governor will be                                                              
able to respond to the Committee and to the public about their                                                                  
intentions to complete this effort.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said DOTPF only received a faxed copy of the letter                                                                
from FHA today so it will respond in the near future.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if a response could be prepared by the weekend.                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said he doubted it.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked what kind of training is required before one                                                               
can be the Master of a fast ferry.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said DOTPF is refining the training requirements with                                                              
the Coast Guard right now.  The Coast Guard has not had to deal                                                                 
with a fast vehicle ferry prior to this project.  It is a struggle                                                              
to translate the international high speed ferry code into specific                                                              
training requirements for Alaska.  One will need a Masters license.                                                             
DOTPF will have its own, very extensive, training program if only                                                               
to operate the sophisticated gadgets that will be on board: radars,                                                             
infrared devices, and low-light level telescopes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked if anyone is available now to be certified to                                                              
skipper a ferry.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said no, but there are people who, with two weeks of                                                               
training with the builder, would be qualified.  The Coast Guard has                                                             
indicated that it will require root certification.  It will not be                                                              
possible to climb aboard a fast ferry and take it anywhere in the                                                               
world.  The definition of "root" is critical, and DOTPF believes                                                                
that root, for its purposes, will be defined as Southeast Alaska.                                                               
Someone would have to have that certification on their license.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR PEARCE asked how many ferry systems in the world use fast                                                               
ferries.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL replied for 15 years or more, hundreds have been                                                                   
operating.  They operate between the United Kingdom and Ireland,                                                                
between France and Britain, in the Baltic Sea, the Mediterranean,                                                               
in Australia and in Japan.  They are only new to Alaska.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN asked if they are used in Canada.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said they are.  He noted he has taken the opportunity                                                              
to travel aboard a vehicle ferry across the St. Lawrence Gulf.                                                                  
That fast ferry is relatively small and is similar to the one that                                                              
will be used here.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD asked if protection of marine mammals will have to be                                                             
considered in the environmental impact statement.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL explained that all construction with federal dollars                                                               
requires some kind of environmental document.  This will probably                                                               
require the lowest level of all of those and DOTPF would have to                                                                
take all of those things into consideration for design and                                                                      
operations.  The routes and weather predictions along the route                                                                 
must be planned in a way similar to the air industry.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MILLER asked whether the fast ferries could use existing                                                                
facilities without major modifications.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL replied that DOTPF will have to have a stern loading                                                               
facility at one end of every route.  DOTPF anticipates that one of                                                              
the stern loading facilities would be in Juneau, one in Sitka, and                                                              
one in Ketchikan.  The front loading facilities can be used                                                                     
everywhere else that there is a single arrival and single departure                                                             
point.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR LINCOLN questioned why a member of the public distributed                                                               
a letter to Commissioner Perkins to committee members and why it                                                                
took the FHA one month to respond to the Commissioner about such a                                                              
critical issue.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CAPTAIN DOLL said he received his faxed copy of the response this                                                               
morning.  He would not normally have made such a thing public - he                                                              
would have waited for the hard copy.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MR. SANDY WILLIAMS, a Juneau resident since 1959 and former federal                                                             
and state highway engineer, said he personally supports the fast                                                                
ferry system as long as it is a short term program that will                                                                    
enhance transportation in the Northern corridor of Southeast                                                                    
Alaska.  However, the only long term solution is to build the road.                                                             
Anything short of that will not provide the service to the                                                                      
travelling public that is necessary, and it will be a continual                                                                 
drain on the resources of the State of Alaska.  The road                                                                        
construction is the most cost effective measure available and with                                                              
declining oil resources and revenue, he foresees that continued                                                                 
ferry service in the Northern part of Southeast Alaska will                                                                     
actually decrease because the money will not be available to                                                                    
operate it at the same level.  He was involved in the program to                                                                
build a road along the west shore of Lynn Canal and sees road                                                                   
access as the preferred alternative for a very long time.  In the                                                               
long term, the ferry service cannot continue to operate in the                                                                  
manner it is operating now.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD announced that the committee will be writing a letter                                                             
to the DOTPF Commissioner and to Governor Knowles requesting an                                                                 
opinion on the $5.5 million and asking whether they intend to                                                                   
jeopardize that money or if they intend to fund the completion of                                                               
the EIS at a cost of $1.8 million.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
          SB 288-APPROVE CLARKE BAY TERMINAL AGREEMENT                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
DAVE GRAY, legislative aide to Senator Mackie, sponsor of SB 288,                                                               
explained that Senator Mackie introduced SB 288 at the request of                                                               
the Inner Island Ferry Authority.  That Authority is comprised of                                                               
all of the communities on Prince of Wales Island and was created                                                                
to respond to a need for more stable and economic ferry service.                                                                
The Authority has received a considerable amount of funds from                                                                  
Alaska's congressional delegation.  Come June, the Authority will                                                               
begin operating a ship daily from Prince of Wales to Ketchikan.                                                                 
The new ferry will offset the current service provided by the MV                                                                
Aurora, but it will be using the docking facility in Clarke Bay.                                                                
A provision in Title 29, under the statutes for municipal                                                                       
transportation authorities, requires them to get approval from the                                                              
legislature for use of a state facility.  That is why SB 288 was                                                                
introduced.  He offered to answer questions.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
There being no questions or further testimony, SENATOR PEARCE moved                                                             
SB 288 from committee with individual recommendations.  There being                                                             
no objection, the motion carried.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN WARD adjourned the meeting.                                                                                            

Document Name Date/Time Subjects